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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:25 pm 
Telly
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The fact that MM3 is divided into two albums leaves many cliffhangers at the end of History Repeating: Blue, and whether Dr. Wily genuinely regrets his mistakes in Gamma Unchained or not is one of them. I have been thinking about the lyrics of the album as a whole, and this is the theory I have come up with. Sorry if someone else has posted it before, or if it was not necessary to open a thread exclusively for it.

At the beginning of Gamma Unchained, Dr. Wily says 'Forgive me for what I have done' as a vocative, that is, he is talking to someone, he's expecting for someone to forgive him. It can either be Mega man, Dr. Light, the whole world (maybe he's being recorded), whatever. This would make everything he says just an act to make it seem like he's innocent of his crimes. But why should I think that? First, we have a serious failure with Proto man:

I thought I could bring the dead back
Broken shell rusted red with age
I gave him power, a new heart
It filled too quickly with his rage

I think that I heard the Red Song again
He wants revenge...


So he resurrected Proto man and he went out of control. But wait, what did Dr. Light say in (I wanna be the one) to watch you die?

You sent my first born back to me
And put a gun in his dead hand


Ok, so Dr. Wily resurrected Proto man, gave him a gun and sent him to Dr. Light, and still he wants to make us believe he got out of control. And then, Gamma goes wild too:

What good is power?; you're out of control
You're out of control


So two robots have gone out of control in an incredibly short span of time. That's coming from a man that has succesfully built a whole bunch of Robot Masters... I'm just not buying it. And we should not forget Magnet man's words:

Sure, my dad wants to rule the world
Can you let that get between us, girl?


This is coming from one of his 'sons'. who should know him better than anyone. Is Dr. Wily really looking for redemption, or was he after world domination after all? Plus, I also think his apologetic stance would fit with Snake man's lyrics: both Snake man and him want Mega man to join their side, and do so by presenting Dr. Light as a dark, horrible person, and Wily as a troubled, idealistic man. But, if my theory is correct, that is just a façade, and Dr. Wily is just full of crap.

If this is true, we can expect the continuation to History Repeating: Blue to reveal Willy's true intentions, maybe through Proto man just before Mega man falls into his trap, or something. I guess only time can prove me right or wrong.

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Last edited by Noxman on Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:58 am 
Mettaur
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My theory is that Wily still wants to take over the world, but he thinks that it is the right thing to do, because then he can help robots and not force them to be the slaves of humans. What he feels bad about in "Gamma Unchained" is that he has done terrible things in order to achieve this goal; he has lied and killed and now he's trying to convince himself that "the end has to justify the means." I think he had to have lost control of Gamma. As soon as he turns it on it decides it is going to kill all humans; Wily never gave it any instructions. That's probably why it was in chains in the first place, because Light was worried about what it might do if it was turned on. As for Protoman, I don't know if you have listened to the songs from MAGFest that are going to be on Red/Mauve, but one of them in particular shows that Protoman is quite angry with Light, regardless of what Wily wants.
P.S. Just so you know, Wily only has one "L" in it

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:18 am 
Telly
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moneydude496 wrote:
My theory is that Wily still wants to take over the world, but he thinks that it is the right thing to do, because then he can help robots and not force them to be the slaves of humans. What he feels bad about in "Gamma Unchained" is that he has done terrible things in order to achieve this goal; he has lied and killed and now he's trying to convince himself that "the end has to justify the means." I think he had to have lost control of Gamma. As soon as he turns it on it decides it is going to kill all humans; Wily never gave it any instructions. That's probably why it was in chains in the first place, because Light was worried about what it might do if it was turned on. As for Protoman, I don't know if you have listened to the songs from MAGFest that are going to be on Red/Mauve, but one of them in particular shows that Protoman is quite angry with Light, regardless of what Wily wants.
P.S. Just so you know, Wily only has one "L" in it


Yeah, that's the 'official', straightforward interpretation. However, my whole point is that he does not regret anything at all and doesn't want to be forgiven, he is just putting on an act. It's just a personal theory though.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:01 am 
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His "reformation" IS an act. That's straight up canon. Wily fakes redemption in order to further his own goals. The reasonably good intentions behind those goals and the inner conflict resulting from the actions taken to achieve them (that make him a legitimately sympathetic character), however, are not.

I say this particularly because that would make him, every single robot master, and the Megas' entire 3-album rock opera 200x ( ;) ) less interesting, and I have more faith in them as writers than that.

Your theory is that Dr. Wily is a big fat bad guy just bad for the sake of being bad? No offense, but that is BORING.

Also seconding the bit about Proto Man. Wily didn't mess with his programming in any way, so being surprised by Proto Man's subsequent quest for revenge is perfectly reasonable and to be expected. Wily didn't send Proto Man after Light, nor was he responsible for Proto going "out of control". That's stupid, and another example of how this theory would make the entire story and every character in it SUPER BORING and uninspired.

There are a few other NON-Robot-Master songs that paint Light in a not-so-flattering light (see what I did there?), so in the end I feel that that sort of corroborates everything else. Snake man's temptation is cool because it makes a reasonable and legitimate argument, not because he's programmed to be a fancy liar.


...To be fair though, I'm still not sure I understand the whole "out of control" bit. I'm not terribly familiar with the events of MM3 canon, so I'm not sure if Gamma going out of control actually happens, or if THAT part is a lie. The song itself is a bit fuzzy and ambiguous as to whether HE'S out of control, or Gamma is, and what his intentions for the thing really are.

What I DO know is that it seems like Unchained is not sung to anyone but himself, because while he may be asking for forgiveness, he's also asking rhetorical questions that don't really seem to be directed at anyone in particular ("tell me why I'm the one that they fear"). I also sincerely doubt he'd be telling anyone that "the end has to justify the means" if he were actually trying to deceive people into thinking he was a changed man.


Last edited by ChaoticFox on Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:27 am 
Mettaur
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Well, far as I remember, in Mega Man 3 Dr. Light says that Wily stole Gamma, which implies that he has some level of control over it, and not that Gamma is running rampant. However, Megas canon doesn't need to directly relate to the games.

Perhaps Wily believed he could control Gamma in the same way he states he turned his "sons" in Megatainment. "Their eyes were opened easily. It was like flipping a switch. They were more than happy to join me, because they believe."

Gamma was built to be a peacekeeper; to determine what action will lead to the neutralization of any threat to said peace. This makes him different from the other robot masters, who were either built with the intention of carrying out a very specific action for the public good, or built by Wily to carry out his will. Up until this point, Wily had been converting Robot Masters who were programmed to serve their creators, and had little understanding of matters regarding conflict. It was either this, or they were built by Wily himself, who would have made sure they would obey him without question.

Gamma, on the other hand, was a collaborative effort between Light and Wily. As such, he was not programmed to regard one or the other as the absolute authority over its actions. Along with this, as a robot designed to bring about peace, he is capable of calculating and determining what the actual best course of action to said peace would be, unlike the formerly mentioned first wave of Wily's Sons.

Now, after that rambling in an attempt to prepare for this final idea, I'll try to get to the point. Perhaps Wily DOES believe that he's bringing about peace. He believes in everything he's saying, and is truly, hopelessly idealistic. This makes sense. He activates Gamma because, as a peacekeeping robot, surely his "eyes will be opened" and he will side with Wily, and settle the conflict. However, Gamma does his calculation, and determines that Wily's reasoning is flawed. He goes out of control, in the words of Wily, because he will not obey him in the same way the others did.

This would also explain why BEFORE Wily activates Gamma, he says that he will "take control", and after (when Gamma decides to disobey him), he says that he is "out of control".

I wrote this pretty quickly, and don't feel like editing it right now. Hope it's easy enough to follow; will fix any errors or oddly phrased parts later.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:20 am 
Telly
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ChaoticFox wrote:
His "reformation" IS an act. That's straight up canon. Wily fakes redemption in order to further his own goals. The reasonably good intentions behind those goals and the inner conflict resulting from the actions taken to achieve them (that make him a legitimately sympathetic character), however, are not.

...

Your theory is that Dr. Wily is a big fat bad guy just bad for the sake of being bad? No offense, but that is BORING.


But of course, the only thing that I was trying to prove is that he does fake redemption and his siding with 'the good guys'' side, not that he is not idealistifc. His personality was pretty much determined in Look what you've done, I was only saying that it is strange of him to beg for forgiveness instead of going on with his own, idealistic goals, and that's he's faking that apologetic stance. I actually agree with Mini-Boss and you, and only wanted to add another nuance to the already complex and beautiful canon that The Megas have created.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:35 am 
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Well in that case, yes, he is doing that. lol

But I think, because of him being the idealistic type, on some level he truly seeks forgiveness for everything he's done in pursuit of that dream (from whom I am not sure. Light? God? Society at large?). He's not looking for atonement, per se, considering his belief that those actions are justified (if not regrettably necessary), but he clearly longs for others to understand what he's trying to achieve - evidenced by his almost frustrated lack of understanding as to why he's the villain and Light's the savior.

In short: I wuv Wiwy


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:37 am 
Telly
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ChaoticFox wrote:
Well in that case, yes, he is doing that. lol

But I think, because of him being the idealistic type, on some level he truly seeks forgiveness for everything he's done in pursuit of that dream (from whom I am not sure. Light? God? Society at large?). He's not looking for atonement, per se, considering his belief that those actions are justified (if not regrettably necessary), but he clearly longs for others to understand what he's trying to achieve - evidenced by his almost frustrated lack of understanding as to why he's the villain and Light's the savior.

In short: I wuv Wiwy


My thoughts exactly, as evidences by the following sentence:

This is the end, so why won't you believe?

He's tired of being thought of as the bad guy, because, in his eyes, he's the good one, he's the one making sacrifices to better society. And who are we to say otherwise?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:53 pm 
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Noxman wrote:
ChaoticFox wrote:
Well in that case, yes, he is doing that. lol

But I think, because of him being the idealistic type, on some level he truly seeks forgiveness for everything he's done in pursuit of that dream (from whom I am not sure. Light? God? Society at large?). He's not looking for atonement, per se, considering his belief that those actions are justified (if not regrettably necessary), but he clearly longs for others to understand what he's trying to achieve - evidenced by his almost frustrated lack of understanding as to why he's the villain and Light's the savior.

In short: I wuv Wiwy


My thoughts exactly, as evidences by the following sentence:

This is the end, so why won't you believe?

He's tired of being thought of as the bad guy, because, in his eyes, he's the good one, he's the one making sacrifices to better society. And who are we to say otherwise?


This is the answer, why won't you believe?

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Better not fuck with Magnet Man (I can attract everything I see)
Better not fuck with Magnet Man (All of your currency to me)
Better not fuck with Magnet Man (Let shit fucking go, baby.)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:54 pm 
Telly
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Shada wrote:
This is the answer, why won't you believe?


I stand butthurted.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:36 pm 
Mettaur
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ChaoticFox wrote:
Well in that case, yes, he is doing that. lol

But I think, because of him being the idealistic type, on some level he truly seeks forgiveness for everything he's done in pursuit of that dream (from whom I am not sure. Light? God? Society at large?). He's not looking for atonement, per se, considering his belief that those actions are justified (if not regrettably necessary), but he clearly longs for others to understand what he's trying to achieve - evidenced by his almost frustrated lack of understanding as to why he's the villain and Light's the savior.

In short: I wuv Wiwy

Seems to me that Wily's singing this song while turning on Gamma. So he's speaking to Gamma as an excuse to also vent out his own opinions. He's frustrated. and like you said, seeking justification wherever possible. He's trying to convince Gamma that his side is the right side, all while also trying to convince himself.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:03 pm 
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I always feel as though Wily is mostly just talking to himself... since Gamma seems overly mechanic without much personality...

Basically, I imaging Wily madly flipping switches, typing commands, and the general start up sequence, using the time he bought somehow breaking into Gamma's storage center. But since he's so darned intelligent, this doesn't take much of his brainpower, but leaves him distraught. Is he doing the right thing? This causes his tirade of self doubt, followed by him almost desperately declaring "The end has to justify the means" He honestly believes this, otherwise he couldn't find the will to continue sinning.

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